‘We Still Have to Struggle for Democracy’: Padoh Saw David Tharckabaw, Karen and Ethnic Alliance Leader

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My personal story: ‘I got involved when I was 14’

I’m Saw David Tharckabaw. Currently I’m the head of the Alliance Affairs Department, KNU (Karen National Union). Before the KNU broke away from the UNFC, I was serving there as the Vice Chairman of the UNFC. Technically I’m still head of the NCUB, the National Council of the Union of Burma, and still head of the NDF, National Democratic Front, an alliance of the ethnic organisations. They have armed wings also, it’s an old organisational alliance that was set up in 1976.

It’s a long story, how I joined the armed resistance of the Karen people. I call it resistance because the Burman ultranationalists, they started attacks, military attacks against the Karen people. The Karen people had to take up arms in resistance, in 1949, January 1949. So, it’s basically a resistance rather than a revolution.

I was involved when I was 14, when I was 14, because the Karen resistance reached my hometown, so I joined because the news was that the Burmans were killing the Karens. So I was young and I was still a student, and I joined the armed resistance without the knowledge of my parents of course. I was in the 7^th standard. The so-called Burma Independence Army (BIA) were killing ordinary innocent Karen civilians in the Irrawaddy Delta when the Japanese came in, in the beginning of 1942. There was racial strife between the Karen and the Burmans. BIA’s head was Aung San Suu Kyi’s father, Bogyoke Aung San, so some people thought that he was responsible for the killing of the Karen, with the help of the Japanese. It was because they told the Japanese that the Karen were followers of the British, the British spies, that sort of thing. So I joined the resistance because I was told and I heard that the Burmans were killing the Karens again.

I was technically a child soldier. I wasn’t accepted at first but later I had to tell lies that I’m 17 years old, instead of telling my true age. And then, I fought for 4 years as an ordinary soldier. Then the Karen resistance decided that they had to carry on the war as a guerilla warfare. The leader said young people could go back for education.

[There were] many young people under 18. So I went straight to Rangoon, because I had relatives there. My parents came down to Rangoon and I finished my studies in 1961.

In 1978, I decided [the situation] was not getting better, just pure militarism [still continued]. The Karen resistance was still going on in the eastern area so I came back to join because I could help in some ways in 1978.

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On youth activism: ‘I see youth as our future leaders’

They [the youth] are strong and they can be more active. They have to learn political activism. They must try to learn politics, and especially the history of the country. Why, you know, there are so many armed resistance, armed struggle [groups] against the Burmese regime.

I think yes, I see youth as our future leaders, but before they become real leaders they have to get involved in political activities as well, the more the better. Peace and reconciliation…the youth have to participate. They must learn that there must be genuine democracy, a genuine federal system. We have organisations, like youth organisations and activities. When there are peace talks there must be one or two representatives from the youth wings included in the peace talks.

But of course in many areas they become teachers, they can learn about agriculture, they can learn about science and technology…you know, in this time and age it is important. And they have the energy, [youth are] very energetic. Old people, they have knowledge and maybe wisdom, local wisdom, but they cannot be energetic. They [youth] have to carry on getting a good education also.

Education is very important. It is the beginning of development. Without education your development will get nowhere. From education you get the key to advance your knowledge even after graduation. And all round education, not the education like the military dictatorship gave. They wanted to keep everyone uneducated and they stopped teaching English. I mean modern education, [like one] must learn at least one international language like Chinese, English, Russian, maybe French, Spanish. I think English is the most suitable because in the modern time we cannot wait for translation, advancements in science and technology are too fast. Because of war we hardly can provide any good education to the Karen youth. We need good education to have any meaningful involvement in such activities.

The youth must participate in the resistance also. Youth are now already included in Karen [meetings]. I see some youth going there, [as] observers. Even if they cannot [participate], they should observe. And they have to struggle on, and they must know that so long as it is a unity strength strictly controlled by the central government than there can be no peace.

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Protracted displacement: ‘They don’t know their homeland’ 

We have to get the views of refugee youth also [heard]. Now they have been staying in Thailand for too long, for example more than 20 years. The youth don’t know their homeland. The Burman ultranationalists agenda is to get these refugees to economic zones or industrial zones to use as cheap labour, but I think that shouldn’t happen. They have to go back to their own native lands inside the country, their villages. There is a colonialist or Burman imperialist agenda to get them away from national resources to exploit the resources. [They also want to] gather up all the ‘insurgency’ because the hills and jungles are a good hide out for ‘insurgents.’

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History of the conflict: ‘They [Burma Army] acted as an occupation army’

The war was still going on against the Communists, against the Karen, and the Kachin also started already, the Kachin also started a resistance because they were also oppressed politically. Aung San, the father of Burma’s Independence had promised to have a federal system and full equality for all the ethnic groups. Equality didn’t happen after he was assassinated, before Independence in 1947. The Kachin people also rose up. Shan people also rose up, because the Burma Army went in and they didn’t leave Shan state. They [Burma Army] acted as an occupation army.

Ne Win seized power in 1962. Most probably with the help of Western countries, especially the Western bloc. He received massive financial and military assistance from the Western bloc to contain Communism. He used socialism as a cover, but actually it was a military dictatorship, he said ‘Burmese Way to Socialism.’

The economy got worse, no jobs, inflation. The economy was in a bad state basically because the cost of war had reduced the country to become a poor country. And in 1988 it had to apply for the Least Developed Countries’ status, I think with the suggestion of Japan. Japan was also helping with money to fight against the ethnics [ethnic nationalities]. They said it was against Communism but actually it was fighting against everyone.

This Burma was actually a creation of the British. The British came and they included many territories of what they called Burma. Actually Burma was a small empire before the British, but it was a small one. The original Burma is what is now Central Burma and Lower Burma. When the British came they included many areas very close to China, India, Thailand.

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Karen population in Burma: ‘we are 20% of the population’

The base area of the Karen Resistance was actually in the Irrawaddy Delta and then 1975 they had to move to this eastern part of Karen country. Most Karens are in Irrawaddy Delta and others what they call now regions like Rangoon, Bago, and Tenasserim. You can find Karen also in other states, like Mon State. Karen are a big group. It’s quite a big ethnic group but the Burmans always say “oh, you’re only 3/4 million.”

Actually I found out that there are 10 million Karen, 20% of the population. The Burmans are only 28%. Anyhow their forefathers lied about their population because they counted all Buddhists such as Arakanese as Burman because the Arakanese speak a dialect of Burmese. Maybe it’s the other way round, the Burmese speak the Arakanese dialect. Then there’s also groups like Dawei, who speak also a dialect and they counted them as Burman. And then there are more than those of course…

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My ongoing motivation: ‘they want to Burmanise all ethnic groups’

My motivation is ongoing because the ultranational Burman agenda is to Burmanise all the ethnic groups. As long as they practice armed suppression of the ethnic nationalities I think we have to carry on. We have to carry on the struggle like now in a peaceful way, or if necessary we have to take up arms again.  We should have a genuine democracy. Now this is only a semi-military dominated democracy. Still dominated, but now it’s less dominated because the important ministries like home or interior, and defence and border affairs, all those ministries are you know, are in the hands of the military. These ministries have enforcement agencies like the police, the military, and they have other things like intelligence gathering, those are very important. It’s also a revolution, we seek a change from a military dictatorship to a democratic system. We still have to struggle for democracy because the government, even though popularly elected is not a full democracy yet. True, genuine, meaningful peace will only come for the ethnics when there is true federalism. There must be a genuine democracy. There must be genuine federalism.

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• View the documentary on YouTube (English version)
• View the documentary on YouTube (Burmese version)
• Read the press release about Rangoon launch in English | Burmese
• View 4-minute advocacy video on YouTube (English subtitles)

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